Dayton Mayor Nan Whaley (right), a Democratic candidate for governor, called on Republican Gov. Mike DeWine (left) to issue a statewide mask mandate for K-12 schools in Ohio. DeWine has recommended mask usage in schools but has refrained from requiring them.
Jeremy Pelzer | cleveland.com
COLUMBUS — In perhaps the closest thing Ohio will see to a governor candidate debate this year, Republican Gov. Mike DeWine and Democratic nominee Nan Whaley squared off over abortion, guns and other issues during a Thursday morning meeting with the editorial board of cleveland.com/The Plain Dealer.
The most contentious part of the 75-minute online meeting came when the two nominees were asked about abortion. After the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade in June, Ohio quickly imposed a “heartbeat” abortion law signed by DeWine in 2019 that bans abortions after about six weeks into a pregnancy.
DeWine, who’s opposed abortion throughout his four-decade career in politics, said “one of the essential functions of government is to protect the most vulnerable,” which include the “unborn.”
The governor, as has been the case in other media interviews, didn’t directly answer whether he favored a complete ban on abortion in Ohio, as has been sought in the past by some conservative state lawmakers.
But DeWine said any new abortion law in Ohio should be something that won’t quickly be overturned via a statewide referendum and sets clear rules for doctors and others to follow.
Whaley, the former mayor of Dayton, quickly brought up the well-known story of a 10-year-old Columbus girl who, after being raped, traveled to Indiana in late June to get an abortion because of the belief that she couldn’t get one in Ohio.
Whaley said “DeWine staffers” cast doubt on the story at the time before it was verified to be true. After the meeting, Whaley’s campaign pointed to an Ohio Capital Journal story stating that “DeWine allies” asked the press how they were sure the story was real and a cleveland.com story reporting that DeWine didn’t directly answer when asked if any future abortion limits would include exemptions for rape and incest.
DeWine said it was “absolutely not true” that his staffers questioned the existence of the 10-year-old.
“The first thing that went through any prosecutor’s mind when this story came out is: who’s the S.O.B. that did it, and are they going to be locked up?” DeWine said. “As a father, if that was my child, I’d want to go kill the guy,” he added later.
“You are the governor, and there are real consequences to the laws that you’ve signed, including this one,” Whaley said to DeWine. “You don’t think of the consequences of a 10-year-old – a 10-year-old – in our state that’s being raped.”
DeWine said he believed that the 10-year-old would have been able to get an abortion in Ohio, as the state’s heartbeat law contains an exemption allowing doctors to perform abortions if they consider the pregnant woman’s life to be at stake or there’s a “serious risk of the substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function.”
DeWine added that if he’s wrong, “then these are the things that we’ll need to work out – that the legislature will work out as it debates this bill.”
Whaley replied that “This isn’t a bill – this is a law that you signed that has implications in the state.”
DeWine also went on offense, noted that Whaley indicated in a 2017 Columbus Dispatch Q&A that she believes abortion should be legal in Ohio with no exceptions. “Very few Ohioans, mayor, with all due respect, agree with that,” DeWine said to Whaley. “That’s a radical position.”
Whaley said DeWine was “completely wrong” about her position, noting that she has said this year that she supports codifying Roe v. Wade, which allowed lawmakers to ban abortions performed after the fetus could survive outside the mother’s womb, which currently is about 23-24 weeks into a pregnancy.
Guns
DeWine was also asked how he reconciled his unsuccessful effort to pass a gun-reform package (which initially called for near-universal background checks and a “red-flag” law allowing judges to order the seizure of guns from people deemed a threat to themselves or others) with his subsequent decision to sign bills loosening Ohio’s gun laws – including no longer requiring training or a permit for adults to carry concealed firearms.
DeWine replied that while the legislature didn’t pass any of his gun-reform package (which Whaley vocally supported when he first unveiled the plan), he made unilateral moves that he thinks “have made a huge, huge difference,” including pushing for Ohio authorities to report warrants to national databases.
DeWine also noted that he has given $250 million in federal coronavirus relief funding (which he opposed the passage of) to local law enforcement. “Go talk to your local mayor. Go talk to, you know, someone who’s not running for governor about what we do,” he said.
The governor said that he has “not given up” on convincing Republican lawmakers to pass parts of his gun-reform plan to pass the “red-flag” proposal (though he disputed calling it a “red-flag” measure) and to toughen penalties for repeat violent offenders found to have guns illegally.
Whaley noted that when people famously called on DeWine to “do something” about gun violence following a 2019 mass shooting in Dayton, “it wasn’t about getting the database right on the warrant section. It was about real, common-sense gun-safety things like universal background checks and red-flag laws, and those are things that (DeWine) completely walked on.”
She added that DeWine “disrespected the people of Dayton” by signing bills allowing permitless concealed-carry and loosening training requirements for educators to carry concealed firearms on school grounds because “he’s afraid of the extremists and radicals in his party.”
DeWine replied that “It’s sad that Mayor Whaley does not understand that the things that I just went through directly impact the safety of the people of Dayton.”
Redistricting
DeWine was asked about his votes as a member of the Ohio Redistricting Commission to pass several proposed legislative redistricting maps that were ruled by the Ohio Supreme Court to be unconstitutionally gerrymandered to favor Republicans – including some cases in which the governor voted to pass maps that were identical or similar to previous plans the court found to be unconstitutional.
The governor, as he’s said before, said he tried in vain to bring Republicans and Democrats together to pass a redistricting plan with bipartisan support. He also said the Ohio Supreme Court “made it difficult and really impossible” in their redistricting decisions for the redistricting commission to pass maps that were compact and competitive.
Rather, the court’s focus was on ensuring that Ohio’s legislative districts were drawn in a way where Republicans controlled about 54% percent of Statehouse seats – mirroring the percentage of the vote that GOP statewide candidates got on average during the past 10 years.
“I don’t blame the court. I don’t blame anybody. But we’re now left with a body of law that makes it virtually impossible to put a focus on competitiveness,” DeWine said. He said Ohio “has to fix this” problem, though he said he didn’t know what alternative redistricting system the state could go with.
Whaley said the governor’s comments showed a lack of leadership.
“It’s like, ‘Well, there’s nothing I can do. Like, I’m just the governor. I’m here. It’s just the way it is,’” Whaley said, “and that’s unacceptable.”
Renewable energy
Asked whether Ohio can move to using renewable fuels, DeWine replied, “Yes, we can.” He pointed to nuclear power and the state’s increased use of natural gas, which is not a renewable energy source but emits less carbon than coal. “You drive through Ohio, you’re seeing more and more windmills – you’re seeing more and more solar panels,” he said, saying his administration favors an “all-of-the-above” energy policy.
Whaley noted that Ohioans, through a remaining part of the scandal-tainted House Bill 6 signed by DeWine, are subsidizing two coal power plants in Ohio and Indiana. DeWine previously said he doesn’t support such subsidies, though state lawmakers have done nothing so far to repeal them.
Whaley said it’s “laughable” to say DeWine has an all-of-the-above energy approach when “there’s no investment in renewable energy, which is the future.”
“Mayor, apparently you have not traveled around the state,” DeWine replied. “We see solar energy going all over the state. We’re seeing wind all over the state.”
Economic development and other issues
DeWine touted his accomplishments during his first four years in office, pointing to his successful efforts to obtain more funding for children’s services, mental-health services and fighting algal blooms, among other things.
“My experience has been that money and policy go together,” DeWine said. “It’s lovely to have policy, but if you don’t have money connected with it, it does not matter.”
DeWine also touted his response to the coronavirus pandemic. Many conservatives were angered by the governor’s stay-at-home order, business closure rules, and other unilateral measures DeWine imposed in the early days of the COVID-19 crisis. But, DeWine said, “We focused on protecting lives. We made tough decisions, but we also did it in a way to protect livelihoods.”
He also said he’s been “aggressive” about bringing jobs and new investment to Ohio, pointing to his administration’s work to land Intel’s planned $20 billion computer-chip facility near Columbus, as well as Sherwin-Williams’ agreement to build a new headquarters in downtown Cleveland.
Whaley, as she has in the past, said DeWine has focused mostly on job growth in Central Ohio. She said that’s because Central Ohio is the “easiest” part of the state to help, as it has the most space for new factories to be built. She also said that Ohio’s abortion restrictions (which have temporarily been put on hold by a judge), permissive gun laws, and other GOP-passed measures discourage employers and workers from moving to Ohio.
“I’m ready to show that Ohio isn’t extreme, like Mike DeWine and his extremist folks have pushed,” she said. “And I’m ready to prove the elites on the coasts wrong and show that Ohio isn’t a backward and declining state.”
Thursday’s meeting marked the first, and perhaps only, time during this year’s general-election campaign season that DeWine and Whaley faced questions together from journalists. DeWine has rejected multiple debate invitations, which Whaley has criticized as “anti-democratic.”
Perhaps the main reason for DeWine’s hesitancy to debate is because he has a double-digit lead over Whaley in recent polls, meaning debates would have little upside for him and would only give Whaley a chance to win over voters or capitalize on any misstep by the governor.
